10 Reasons We Need to Stop Hating on FWD

"The Vibe Guy, Apparently" (kitt222) 11/29/2013 at 18:22 • Filed to: None

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Can we all agree that FWD is not the worst thing in the world?

EL_ULY > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 18:28

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agreed, hybrid FWD's are the worst if you're an enthusiast

Reigntastic > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 18:30

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Not my preference. Power delivery of RWD is much better, equal length driveshafts are nice too.

SaabStutz > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 18:30

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I think we can all appreciate how it keeps family cars affordible. Also, all the SAABs were FWD, so it can't be all bad. Torque steer can be fun!

imadeaburner > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 18:35

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Here is what I have to say.

Some FWD cars I have driven and owned have been the best handling cars I have ever driven.

Look at some stats, they may be biased though.

Look around the Cobalt, see what it competes with....Note this is in stock form as well....

FWD is not the worst thing possible in this world, RWD can be unforgiving at times, and AWD is a bastard to launch right all the time, and has more bits you can shatter by launching too hard.

Go to a local dragstrip, see what the Honda's are doing. Look at their times and how efforless they can do it compared to the bigger heavier RWD cars.

imadeaburner > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 18:37

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I have equal length halfshafts.

My RWD car wheel hopped worse than my FWD one...

Reigntastic > imadeaburner 11/29/2013 at 18:38

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whaddya drive?

imadeaburner > SaabStutz 11/29/2013 at 18:38

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They weren't all FWD.

Some were AWD.

This was Converted.

imadeaburner > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 18:40

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A FWD econobox.

With around whp and ft lbs of tq at the wheels.

scoob > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 18:42

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Reigntastic > imadeaburner 11/29/2013 at 18:43

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A regular around here has a Cobalt SS that's been very tuned, he deals with a lot of torque steer, but you don't make that kind of power so I'd imagine it isn't bad. Add a turbo and that kind of goes out the window.

Reigntastic > imadeaburner 11/29/2013 at 18:44

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All about that power to weight ratio, with the civics especially.

imadeaburner > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 18:45

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hi.

it changes lanes when it wants.

I can race a revers nascar track just using the throttle to steer.

Reigntastic > scoob 11/29/2013 at 18:46

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-Expensive and automatic
-Euro-spec
-Worthy contender, smile maker
-Torque steer of death
-Was replaced by a far superior RWD value coupe

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 18:46

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Agreed. A lot of cars I really like are FWD, and many are better for it.

At lower power levels the differences in drivetrain loss are pretty noticeable. For instance my 2.5l Alfa 156 will fairly reliably out-drag my E36 325i, despite a 2bhp and 15lb-ft deficit.

The engine may make less power, but more of it reaches the wheels.

imadeaburner > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 18:46

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I've seen full interior civics weighing the same as a stripped Foxbody with around the same power and the Civic is still faster.

It has the grip right off the line, even though the front bits are brittle, it can still hang when built right.

Reigntastic > imadeaburner 11/29/2013 at 18:47

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I've never driven anything FWD with that much power, so I don't have the experience to comment on it. My Jetta Wolfsburg was awesome with its limited slip diff, but especially going up hills that was very noticeable with 200/200

imadeaburner > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 18:50

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My car has a LSD too. But even that doesn't seem to help.

Equal length halfshafts.

Solid mounts are coming soon once I have the money to get it, more money is going to the engine to diag some issues I have right now

Lets Just Drive > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 18:52

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I've owned a variety of cars. I've had FWD, AWD and RWD and what I can tell you is this; I prefer RWD. That's my preference.

But no, FWD is not the tool of lame brain, dumbing down. It's not what I'd pick, but nor would I sit there and tell you that your car sucks because it's a Front Wheel Drive. It probably sucks for a bunch of other reasons and just happens to also be FWD.

My friend just bought a Scion tC. We got into it because I said that if he was going to buy a Scion it's insane not to buy the FR-S. But here's the thing - I hate the tC for more than just being a FWD. It's also a terrible car.

But, had he come home in a Focus ST, I'd have sat there in quiet jealousy waiting for the chance to steal his keys and hoon that hot hatch.

The difference is that a RWD car is likely to be redeemed from its other horrible attributes because it pushes from the rear and makes driving more fun. This goes for a host of lame and otherwise pointless cars whose only redeeming attribute is that it drives from the ass end. FWD lame boxes don't even have that redemption to fall back on... they're just lame FWD boxes.

Thus, I'd say that a FWD car is more likely to be lame and stupid and dumb because of it's FWD set up but that doesn't take away, at all , from the world of sick as hell hot hatches that pull from the front and happen to kick ass also.

Example; I own an S197 Mustang with a V6. If it weren't RWD and pulled from the front, there'd be pretty much nothing to make it worthwhile but because it's ass biased, the thing is great fun... And okay, they're pretty good looking. But I think you get the point I'm trying to make.

And let's not forget that being an AWD isn't a ticket to insta-cool either. There are a whole crap load of AWD cars I'd happily push off of a cliff.

So no, FWD isn't terrible... it's just more likely to be.

Reigntastic > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:01

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A buddy of mine got a Scion TC in high school, before the FR-S was released. Absolutely god awful car and build quality. Nice post.

Lets Just Drive > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 19:03

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Thank you! I save my flame hate for FP replies. HAHA!

Get this... if you think your buddy had it bad...

... my buddy used to own a tC and if that weren't bad enough, he Lambo'd the doors on that piece.

He now owns an 06 GTO, Datto 1600 and a WRX'd Forrester. His garage is full of awesome but at any moment, if I'm feeling jealous or spiteful, I throw that Lambo doored Scion in his face.

KirkyV > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 19:04

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Why doesn't it qualify if it's Euro-spec? It's still an awesome - well, actually, I'd have gotten the generation before it, but still - FWD car.

syaieya > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 19:09

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I'll be honest, I can't recall if i've ever driven a "sporty" fwd car. But what I have driven has all had this twitchy feeling. I just don't like the way they put power down, it's not confidence inspiring and they don't suite the feel I look for in a car. The CLA Mercedes may change my mind but I'll have to see bout that.

Reigntastic > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:13

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His TC was so bad, that when closing the hatch one time, the plastic interior piece simply fell out, after using the handle that was built in to close it. His parents bought it new. That bad.

I never understood lambo doors, but it seems his taste has improved.

Reigntastic > KirkyV 11/29/2013 at 19:14

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The version in the US is nothing like it. Can't get it here, and it is a great car.

Forgot to flame the mini, so I might as well put that here.

-nice car, but priced way out of territory

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 19:27

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Hey, don't look at me, I hate on nothing. :p

GhostZ > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 19:29

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FWD is great if you're never going over 200HP/ton. It has tons of weight-savings advantages, can offer a more compact package, and is easier to give sharp handling too that isn't dangerous.

Once you get over 200HP/ton though, you either need some very clever hardware/software to control the handling, a really, really good chassis, or great driving skills.

Same goes for wheelbase. The longer that tail end gets away from the front wheels, the worse it will be to drive FWD. That's my opinion.

offroadkarter > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 19:46

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FWD cars won't try to kill you? I guess they never heard of TORQUE STEER

Our 275hp northstar V8 hearse torque steered like a bitch. So did my friends turbo PT cruiser.

KirkyV > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 19:47

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I realise that, but that's sort of my point: it's still a great FWD car, whether it's available in the US or not. As such, in the debate over whether or not FWD cars can be any good, it's a perfectly valid example.

(As for the MINI, I'd have criticised it for so poorly utilising its interior space. It has a great many competitors that are just as small, if not smaller, and yet have far more space in both the cabin and boot.)

Milky > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 20:03

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This will always be me when it comes to FWD cars.

They are great for interior packaging and being efficient, I will unabashedly say that. But don't try to tell me its a sports car (with a few exceptions) or that you are really using all of that power above 300 (I know Imadeaburner will have words for me on that). Besides I have too much drifting RWD to even care.

Autolegend86 > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 20:07

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People who make fun of fwd have not been exposed to a proper set up fwd.

Looking back to cars like the Peugeot 205, Mini Cooper (new and old) , Saab 93, and select others, fwd can be made into a brilliant drivers car and even requires oversteer characteristics during power liftoff in the corners.

In the USA especially, proper fwd cars are a rare sight and most people ignore the ones they shouldn't because of generic dispositions.

I am far more interested in motorsport products but i still take time to look into road products as well. Some of the greatest advancements in fwd came in the mid 90's with 2 FIA race groups.

Group A7, "F2" "Kit Cars" in rallying. Cars that were capable of beating 4wd competition on tarmac stages.

Renault Clio Maxi

Peugoet 306 Maxi....What fwd cars should look like when driven.

Super Touring Class II in International Touring cars
When every brand was throwing their best and FWD was more than capable of victory.

When Nigel Mansell drove a Ford Mondeo

Lets Just Drive > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 20:13

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True, but consider...

... I used to own a Hyundai Sonata... which I tinted to illegal, pull-me-over levels, adorned with a fake hood scoop and stuck a Turbo-Sound exhaust tip on.

I dunno if it helps any, but I had two 15's in the truck, a 10 speaker set up inside and it pumped!

Pumped so loud the whole thing rattled. I got over my stereo-car phase very early, but I had to give it a shot. This was the same sickness which infected my Lambo door'd bro.

911e46z06 > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/29/2013 at 20:32

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Unconvinced.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > imadeaburner 11/29/2013 at 20:52

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What are you doing out of guise? hahahaha

SaabStutz > imadeaburner 11/29/2013 at 21:36

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I can't believe I missed that. I guess I can't call myself a SAAB gearhead anymore. :(

In my defense, they only added the XWD in the later SAABs, which I don't really pay much attention to. Still, my mistake.

Reigntastic > KirkyV 11/29/2013 at 21:40

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It may be a great FWD car, but I'll never be able to drive one (at least for another ~20 years). It's dandy if a reviewer thinks it's lovely, but it's just not relevant to me, I suppose. I can only drive the US-spec SI, and those are numb, underpowered, and overpriced.

MINIs are absolutely cramped. I had to sit sideways to fit in the back seat of my friend's '06 S (iirc). Car had decent pull though, and made some nice noises. Would rather have a lot of different cars for the money, though.

Reigntastic > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 21:41

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Even I'm tempted to get illegal tint... I'm probably going to stick to legal levels, just so I have one less reason to get pulled over.

Lets Just Drive > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 22:10

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My current Mustang is tinted right up to the legal level. I keep the documentation in my glove box just in case I run into a "I'm pretty sure I know the law" cop.

I got pulled daily in that Poondai So-hot-Ah.

Still, one of the best moments I ever had was when a cop asked me, "Did you put a turbo on this thing?"

I was like, "Yeah, it's at the back of the car."

And he looked at me confused, then wrote me a ticket for my tints.

KirkyV > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 22:12

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Yeah, they're good to drive, but I just couldn't see myself actually getting one. My Peugeot 106 has more interior and luggage space, and it's dwarfed by the MINI.

Reigntastic > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:14

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That's definitely good advice, I think I'll do that as well. It's on my to do list.

Lets Just Drive > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 22:25

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Do you make To Do lists, too?

They're the bane of and only reason for my existence.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Milky 11/29/2013 at 23:06

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Reigntastic > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 23:20

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Well, I have a MR2do list... :)

Lets Just Drive > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 23:35

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That's clever.

I'm going to keep a 2JZ To Do list.

Reigntastic > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 23:42

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Obligatory.

Lets Just Drive > Reigntastic 11/29/2013 at 23:48

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I've loved that image since it first appeared on the interwebs back in the stone age.

Lets Just Drive > imadeaburner 11/30/2013 at 00:06

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I don't disagree.

I'm just going to add, you're talking straight drag. Not every day or frequent use, or even a track star.

I'm disagreeing, I'm just suggesting that in the world of stock and/or new cars FWD is more likely to be a detractor while RWD is likely to be a value add. Of course, one also has to consider the market - here in North America we don't get many of the really balls-to-the-wall hot hatches that Europe so enjoys and I think that affects my perspective. Over here, a RWD car is more likely to be a drivers car while FWD is more likely to be a commuters car.

If we're talking about drag prepped cars, it's really a hard discussion to have because while most RWD's will walk away from FWD's, a properly built FWD can walk all over a RWD car... the downside being that once you get to that point you're really talking about a strictly drag run car while the RWD may still be manageable, or even enjoyable, on the street.

And on a side note; big fat wheels up front catch the cops eyes much quicker than big fat meats in the back.

Lets Just Drive > GhostZ 11/30/2013 at 00:08

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And I happen to agree with it.

An over powered RWD (ie, Shelby GT500) can be a lot of fun while an over powered FWD (ie, some European hot hatch, you assholes!) can just be a pain in the neck.

Having said all that, I like that FWD hot hatches can cock a wheel. Do that in a RWD and you're gonna have a bad time.

1337HPMustang > scoob 11/30/2013 at 11:59

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All of those cars just make me a little sad that they're cool and wrong wheel drive. Like a beautiful and smart woman who has every quality you could ever want in a soulmate, but she has a deep burning hatred for blacks and jews. You just wouldn't be able to look past that, and I wouldn't be able to look past the fact that my front wheels are doing everything and the back ones are just being towed around for the ride.

1337HPMustang > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 11/30/2013 at 12:01

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I've said this once before,

ten reasons to hate fwd cars, a list made by me in under a minute

1. can't do standing 180

2. sucks to change a clutch

3. usually matched to a four banger

4. inherently can't handle more than 300 hp

5. inherently suck at taking turns (center of gravity all wrong when rotating)

6. understeer is never fun, unlike oversteer

7. suck at launches because weight shift is all wrong as well

8. fwd is popular only because user friendly for your average a to b commuter and for economy, two very lame reasons.

9. they all look the same

10. nature actually likes rwd better

Brianc72gt > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 12/01/2013 at 00:57

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Back in school in the NorthEast, I had an 82 tercel 5 speed. In the snow I could drive down the street, pull a 180, continue backwards for a bit, spin it around again and keep going. Finger on the handbrake release in the wet or the snow and it is a total donut machine. Silly fun.

My current toy, an 06 Cooper S 6 speed with a little bump in power, likes to play "guess which lane we'll end up in when you stand on it." Cracks me up every time.

Reborn Pyrrhic > SaabStutz 12/02/2013 at 17:44

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The most powerful Saab ever made was rear wheel drive.

Reborn Pyrrhic > 1337HPMustang 12/02/2013 at 17:46

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Changing the clutch on a Classic Saab 900 is actually quite easy, albeit that's rare on front wheel drive cars. The clutch does not reside between engine and transmission on that car.

SaabStutz > Reborn Pyrrhic 12/02/2013 at 18:23

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-7X

According to Wikipedia, all 9-7Xs were all wheel drive.

Reborn Pyrrhic > SaabStutz 12/02/2013 at 18:29

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Selectable all wheel drive. You could still drive them with rear wheel drive only.

imadeaburner > SaabStutz 12/04/2013 at 15:42

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You made a mistake, its one of three before we take away posting privileges.

Casper > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 12/04/2013 at 19:36

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No and I'll tell you why: It will always be worse than RWD and AWD. If there is the option to not have FWD, that is what is taken. It's simple, people don't hate FWD. It is simply not as good as other options in a strictly drive train to drive train comparison. Being disliked in comparison and hated for no reason are very different things.

FWD isn't the worst thing in the world... it's the the worse driving layout of the three.

Autolegend86 > GhostZ 12/08/2013 at 17:45

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Agreeing on clever hardware as older fwd systems would fail inthis department. But in the new age of intelligent differentials. 400hp @ 2200 lbs with control is the norm.

This package can win endurance races against GT3 cars and laps the entire Nurburgring lap 6 seconds slower than a VLN GT3 derived Audi R8 race car.

That lap includes a portion of the GP track and the north loop.

Length of car can be fixed as well. Even though cars like the Pug 205 were short wheelbase, the Super Touring cars of the mid 90's had mid size suspensions and were incredible in their cornering.

ILovePickeldEggs > The Vibe Guy, Apparently 10/31/2014 at 09:24

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They dont slide my ass